Mail Archive of the old Santa Clara Valley Lutheran Parish

I adjure you by the Lord that this letter be read to all the brethren. (Thessalonians 5:27)
Subject: Re: Today's Devotion
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:16:55 -0700
From: Bob McKee <pastor.mckee@gmail.com>
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pastor.mckee@gmail.com designates 209.85.222.186 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.222.186;
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type;
        b=PH5wyPdEmVf5w5mrK9UV0mxW/rVsqNXBox3fLqaahgjQmgf7M7wvC6IuckdHi4I1Od
         sswcBtwszNQB868TiLEDGw1t5N71qgY41+wzF8enLc0U7QSVc5hJIfgDM1OmGPKarwQP
         RkC4Jl6s8VLKEtNwj57kaSKZDiuPiejeLDIoM=
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="001636417ee3fa7bb5046ead9a55"
In-Reply-To: <e4eeccba-007b-4076-b867-07de9c7ad9a4@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <e4eeccba-007b-4076-b867-07de9c7ad9a4@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:16:55 -0700
Message-ID: <5af66a2d0907141016kdb96335p5f4cc02a8ca36d8@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Today's Devotion
From: Bob McKee <pastor.mckee@gmail.com>
To: scvlp@googlegroups.com

--001636417ee3fa7bb5046ead9a55
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks David.

I especially like the words, "The truth of heaven is not a spiritual insigh=
t
to be gained,
but a communal life to be lived."

Over 30 years! Hard to believe.

Take care my friend,
Bob

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 8:12 AM, David Bonde <dkbonde@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I recently found an edition of the Apostolic Fathers which has both
> the Greek text and a modern English translation (Michael Holmes, Baker
> Academic).  My earlier efforts to read them were frustrated because I
> could not see what was in the Greek behind the translation, but I=92m
> also beginning to wonder whether I wasn=92t ready to understand the
> Apostolic Fathers.  Now, at a stage in life when I have been serving
> as a pastor of the church for over 30 years, I find these texts
> completely fascinating for they are written by old men who have long
> served the church and are struggling against the forces that are
> changing it.  I don=92t see now what I had once thought I had seen =96 a
> church retreating from the radical liberating message of Jesus to the
> safe ground of conventional morality, I see elders trying to hold
> their congregations together in the face of ideas and people that
> threaten to divide them.
>
> There is something refreshing in the fact that there is nothing new
> under the sun.  I find it nice to hear Clement write
>
> =93It is disgraceful, dear friends, yes, utterly disgraceful and
> unworthy of your conduct in Christ, that it should be reported that
> the well-established and ancient church of the Corinthians, because of
> one or two persons, is rebelling against its presbyters.=94 (1 Clement
> 47.6)
>
> And it puts the trials of my own ministry in interesting perspective
> to hear Ignatius write, as he moves across Asia in chains towards his
> martyrdom in Rome,
>
> =93Fire and cross and battles with wild beasts, mutilation, mangling,
> wrenching of bones, the hacking of limbs, the crushing of my whole
> body, cruel tortures of the devil =96 let these come upon me, only let
> me reach Jesus Christ!=94 (or =93attain=94 Jesus Christ).  (Ignatius to t=
he
> Romans 5.3)
>
> Then there is the enduring truth expressed in 2 Clement:
>
> =93When the pagans hear from our mouths the oracles of God, they marvel
> at their beauty and greatness.  But when they discover that our
> actions are now worthy of the words we speak, they turn from wonder to
> blasphemy, saying that it is a myth and a delusion.=94 (13.3)
>
> But what interests me the most is the discovery that the familiar
> reference to Holy Communion as =93the medicine of immortality=94 has been
> taken out of context.  It is not the bread that is the medicine of
> immortality, but the one bread:
>
> =93All of you, individually and collectively, gather together in grace,
> by name, in one faith and one Jesus Christ =85 in order that you may
> obey the bishop and council of presbyters with an undisturbed mind,
> breaking one bread, which is the medicine of immortality, the antidote
> we take in order not to die but to live forever in Jesus
> Christ.=94  (Ignatius to the Ephesians 20.2)
>
> The reference is not to the power of the sacrament, but the power of
> the community which gathers together for the sacramental meal.
> Cutting ourselves off from one another cuts us off from Christ.  This
> is not a defense of the existing power structure of these ancient
> churches; this is a defense of the idea that the church is the body of
> Christ.  The truth of heaven is not a spiritual insight to be gained,
> but a communal life to be lived.  My destiny is tied up with your
> destiny.  Our destiny is connected to living together in Christ.
>
> I don=92t know how we recapture any of this in Santa Clara County in the
> 21st century, living as we do in a spiritual marketplace where people
> move easily from one place to another to find a message and ministry
> that suits the need of the moment.  But if the medicine of immortality
> is not in the bread but in our life together embodied in the bread,
> then we truly face a great challenge.
>
> >
>

--001636417ee3fa7bb5046ead9a55
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>Thanks David.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I especially like the words, &quot;The truth of heaven is not a spirit=
ual insight to be gained,<br>but a communal life to be lived.&quot;</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Over 30 years! Hard to believe.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Take care my friend,</div>
<div>Bob<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 8:12 AM, David Bonde <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dkbonde@gmail.com">dkbonde@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>I recently found an edition =
of the Apostolic Fathers which has both<br>the Greek text and a modern Engl=
ish translation (Michael Holmes, Baker<br>
Academic). =A0My earlier efforts to read them were frustrated because I<br>=
could not see what was in the Greek behind the translation, but I=92m<br>al=
so beginning to wonder whether I wasn=92t ready to understand the<br>Aposto=
lic Fathers. =A0Now, at a stage in life when I have been serving<br>
as a pastor of the church for over 30 years, I find these texts<br>complete=
ly fascinating for they are written by old men who have long<br>served the =
church and are struggling against the forces that are<br>changing it. =A0I =
don=92t see now what I had once thought I had seen =96 a<br>
church retreating from the radical liberating message of Jesus to the<br>sa=
fe ground of conventional morality, I see elders trying to hold<br>their co=
ngregations together in the face of ideas and people that<br>threaten to di=
vide them.<br>
<br>There is something refreshing in the fact that there is nothing new<br>=
under the sun. =A0I find it nice to hear Clement write<br><br>=93It is disg=
raceful, dear friends, yes, utterly disgraceful and<br>unworthy of your con=
duct in Christ, that it should be reported that<br>
the well-established and ancient church of the Corinthians, because of<br>o=
ne or two persons, is rebelling against its presbyters.=94 (1 Clement<br>47=
.6)<br><br>And it puts the trials of my own ministry in interesting perspec=
tive<br>
to hear Ignatius write, as he moves across Asia in chains towards his<br>ma=
rtyrdom in Rome,<br><br>=93Fire and cross and battles with wild beasts, mut=
ilation, mangling,<br>wrenching of bones, the hacking of limbs, the crushin=
g of my whole<br>
body, cruel tortures of the devil =96 let these come upon me, only let<br>m=
e reach Jesus Christ!=94 (or =93attain=94 Jesus Christ). =A0(Ignatius to th=
e<br>Romans 5.3)<br><br>Then there is the enduring truth expressed in 2 Cle=
ment:<br>
<br>=93When the pagans hear from our mouths the oracles of God, they marvel=
<br>at their beauty and greatness. =A0But when they discover that our<br>ac=
tions are now worthy of the words we speak, they turn from wonder to<br>bla=
sphemy, saying that it is a myth and a delusion.=94 (13.3)<br>
<br>But what interests me the most is the discovery that the familiar<br>re=
ference to Holy Communion as =93the medicine of immortality=94 has been<br>=
taken out of context. =A0It is not the bread that is the medicine of<br>imm=
ortality, but the one bread:<br>
<br>=93All of you, individually and collectively, gather together in grace,=
<br>by name, in one faith and one Jesus Christ =85 in order that you may<br=
>obey the bishop and council of presbyters with an undisturbed mind,<br>bre=
aking one bread, which is the medicine of immortality, the antidote<br>
we take in order not to die but to live forever in Jesus<br>Christ.=94 =A0(=
Ignatius to the Ephesians 20.2)<br><br>The reference is not to the power of=
 the sacrament, but the power of<br>the community which gathers together fo=
r the sacramental meal.<br>
Cutting ourselves off from one another cuts us off from Christ. =A0This<br>=
is not a defense of the existing power structure of these ancient<br>church=
es; this is a defense of the idea that the church is the body of<br>Christ.=
 =A0The truth of heaven is not a spiritual insight to be gained,<br>
but a communal life to be lived. =A0My destiny is tied up with your<br>dest=
iny. =A0Our destiny is connected to living together in Christ.<br><br>I don=
=92t know how we recapture any of this in Santa Clara County in the<br>21st=
 century, living as we do in a spiritual marketplace where people<br>
move easily from one place to another to find a message and ministry<br>tha=
t suits the need of the moment. =A0But if the medicine of immortality<br>is=
 not in the bread but in our life together embodied in the bread,<br>then w=
e truly face a great challenge.<br>
<br>
--001636417ee3fa7bb5046ead9a55--
Information...

Last updated 2025-09-18 13:29:00 by Webmaster
Mail Archive of the old Santa Clara Valley Lutheran Parish

Message Archive Navigation

Information...
